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Pie's Future


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#16 OFFLINE   Drone

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:13 PM

Hmm, should I say no to wipe because of the stuff mentioned above, being that oldies are helpful enough to support and encourage new comers to stay and keep ‘em playing, while the gap between the two is unmeasureable? Or yes to wipe so we all start from the scratch fairly, although there is no guarantee of the outcome that the server will go boom, which may both lose old players and possible new comers? Either way, I know you lot only think what is good for the server and everyone. However, imo, Pie is as good as dead; I must say and admit it. My brother and I have been around for what, 2, 3, 4 years? Guess what? During the time of late 2012 and up to present, in short period of time we managed to make a number of GI (Godly items), which we could not be any happier. Just kidding, lol (did I make you laugh?). :)) GIs are everywhere, easy to make and most players around own a couple or 3 of each. Wiping them is the only way my brother and I believe to balance the economy, power gap and mainly the server. Also, lately, players playing Pie can be counted and most of the time deserted for everyone knows the reason.

If the server goes ahead of the update being unfavourable to wipe, we have to consider things thoroughly. I know we can all be generous enough as to help the server pick up its population. However, tossing off mid class stuff for the new comers, which mostly of us do to help, may discourage the new comers, to think that stuff in Pie are easy to get and such stuff are just for giving away, despite Pie being low rate server. Their view of Pie as to come, play and enjoy may be gone because it is less thrilling than what they expected it is going to be. The power gap is another thing. A lot of new comers often first think of the gap between average and high profile players. It motivates them, to think that gap is something not unmeasureable, intimidating as to make them quit so easily and believes at the challenge.

If however, Matias has decided to go ahead of the wipe, and if by any chance the update is Renewal, the difficulty of Renewal on a low rate server is something to be greatly considered. My brother and I had a chance to play Renewal once before with a new server, of course we all started with scratch, but only because of the rates and the levelling/drop system of the Renewal being disabled was the reason we all coped up. We need a certain number of things to pick up numbers, keep them around for longest time possible and give them the excitement and fun the reason why they played Pie. If necessary, the rate has to be revamped to satisfy everyone. Advertisement is also a must to pick up numbers. We need well-structured and enough organization (GM(s)/Staff) to keep players stick around. The enjoyment of playing is something with GM/Staff around.

Anyways, what's up everyone? How are we doing? It's been a very long time, huh. :))

Edited by Drone, 20 April 2013 - 04:14 PM.

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#17 OFFLINE   Matias

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

While I did ask for not much information to be asked since it wouldnt be revealed I am not going to answer a few questions but only the ones I feel that can be answered.

What is the challenge if people give you the top gear equips? (I mean right, Jero, Ant, Rich, Mike, Andy, Eric some of the Brazilians just to mention a few) hold more than a single set of top gear, meaning they can give away or lend it. Eventually they won't have spare ones to give away so there wont be much to give to newcomers. Nevertheless, whats the fun of playing when you start at the top? Don't get me wrong. I myself received items from Andy, Eric and Mike and I have pretty much the whole pack aswell. But I didn't farm me and I have no idea how hard it is to make a Meginjard nor did I have the need to go through the intense farming and collecting proccess and I can say I missed a lot of fun there.
But that point aside, the question I ask myself remains... That is pretty unfair seeing that most of the new players received a lot of items they didnt farm themselves missing quiet a proccess through Pie's life experience.
You can't give stuff to every new comer, not every new comer will get help even if someone can give away stuff and even that, thats kind of lame.
I mean, back in the day BR4EVER was pretty much controlling the WoE items since they'd gain more than 50% of the agits after a WoE because simply put, most players didnt stand a chance against them, which eventually grew people tired and eventually they left (It was not just a matter of content, but it was a factor tho).

The main factor here is time, there are almost no inbetweeners meaning its either, you have nothing or you have it all, and that is most challenging point on Pie's current state.

It is not a matter of just content, there are a few servers around with 30~40 active players running on pre-re (Meaning pretty much or less than what Pie is right now). There were a few with 80+ players not too long ago (though most of them have shutdown by now), aswell as there being 10~20 server with the most up to date content.

Content is one of the reasons why Pie's population is low but it is not the only one, reason why the wipe idea was started, since it'd pretty much deal with almost all of the problems.

I have no expectations on how many new players would come, 10? 20? 50? 150? I don't know and I honestly don't care. This is not being done for new players, but for old players aswell. I mean, I don't know about everyone, but for someone who already owns a whole Godly items set, there isnt much to pursue after that, which means it will give every old player a chance to enjoy the grame from its roots again with a whole lot of new gameplay (Assuming Renewal is implemented, it'd almost be as a new game to discover).

Now, addressing some of the questions that werent supposed to be addressed
- There is no final decision of what will be implemented (Renewal content, Renewal Mechanics, Rates increase). But we're ready to deploy anything once we decide. So I can't confirm what the changes will be
- If there is a wipe, there will be something done about donors. I am not sure if all the DPs will be refunded or if it will be everything from the beginning. While somethig would be done if we wiped, whatever it is would have to be throughly thought, to avoid a few players going full powered and destroying the economy. I do know you won't have to donate again unless you want to, but I can't say if someone who donated $500 over the past 7 years will be able to get all of his DPs right away.

And as a small clarification to someone who asked about Pie's donations, Pie hasnt had many donations for a really really long time. In general we do not split "Pie Donations and Force Donations", both go to the same funding to pay for the bills, so its not like "Pie" itself would cover for a new server. (Being all honest I belive the last Pie donation that I can say for certain was for Pie stuff, came over a year ago).

As Ant said, it is an option that is being considered, reason why your feedback is highly appreciatted, but think about your own experience, don't think about the rest. Everyone gets a chance to express how they'd feel about it from their own experience. If someone cares to say something they can, so don't base your thoughts on what would the rest or the older players think.

Either way we go we're rolling the dices and there is absolutely no guarantee that new people would come (Wipe or not). I've heard old players saying they'd come back if we wipe, while I've heard others wouldnt come back if we wipe. As for newplayers, there is no way of knowing such.

P.S.: I posted this after seeing Drone's post and he pretty much explained how we're and why this is being considered (Not decided yet).
We're pretty much on a thin line which can be pretty decisive and the chances of it to work are completely unknown.
Plus Drone said. Pie is pretty much dead from whichever point we see it. If we plan on making it rise again, the most certain way would be a wipe.
A wipe certainly encourages new players to join. The only thing making us hesitate are the older players.

#18 OFFLINE   Nev

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:21 PM

I like the idea of the backup for the old data as an ensurance if the plan doesn't work.

Main thing we have to consider is that right now the competition for the server itself as a whole are not other RO servers out there, is that this game is old by now, and the main companies of videogames worldwide are launching games everyday, the offer has been masified, the main competition of games like RO are everywhere right now, games like LOL or any online game on steam are the main competitors as for attracting newcomers. Under that premise, beside a wipe the effort should focus on providing a nice and good experience to anyone who might come so they stay, and know the server exists and is a good place to come, which is a more complex problem.

I'm not in favor or against a wipe, my only concern is that whatever is done, should be the option that gives the best benefits in the long run in general.

As for the donations, I know cases (mine included) of people who donates long time ago, before we had credit cards like 4 or 5 years ago (we used western union to send money to a friend who picked up the money and donated with her credit card and then payed the bill with the money we did send to her on her next bill), so we donated with help of friends that had credit cards on that moment(diego and renato who are my friends and neihbors also used that way with another Canadian friend who played just for a few moths and then left, and by now he has moved back to Canada with his family), most of them have left for good without chances of comming back, as also people who might have donation items from maybe a third or fourth person. I was wondering if those cases are beign considered under the donation thing, since it would be really complex to check each and every case that could apply at that evaluation, it seems that the most simple solution on that aspect would be to wipe also the donation stuff, but I personally wouldn't be so easy minded about cases of people who I know who have donated a lot of money so far, leaving the fact they care or not about the whole subject itself aside, I just don't feel it good, and I'm also having in mind that donation items are a contribution and not an actual transaction that gives rights to present claims about the present you got for your help with the server maintenance, but if its beign on the mind for the plan, I think it should also be considered from this perspectives.

#19 OFFLINE   Matias

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 09:49 PM

About your last point. There is absolutely nothing that I can do in such cases.
People who received items off someone else as a gift or by buying those ingame is not part of the people we'd consider when deciding donations. If this was the case we'd have to give everyone the items they bought with zeny and then there'd almost be no wipe. lol

As for the case of someone donating on your behalf, I can't do anything either under any case (Wipe or not, shall you ever have an issue with your donation), as I can't actually confirm it was you who donated and not your friend. As a personal agreement between two people, you'd have to rely on your friends will and values to have him/her give you back (And report the issue) the items.

#20 OFFLINE   xxsicnessxx

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:58 AM

As they say: sometimes the right choices are the hardest ones to make. You also have to take into account the "image" of pie. If people play it in its current state and they leave they leave with the bad image of dark ro pie. Which makes them more reluctant to joining again. So how long do we continue with this facade of pumping life into a dead horse. This is just my opinion.



#21 OFFLINE   gobassabog

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 03:51 AM

hmmm dark RO FORCE too will get wipe in the future????

#22 OFFLINE   xxsicnessxx

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:02 AM

Nothing about force here good sir :p

#23 OFFLINE   oya18adik

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:02 AM

First of all, this is a bit sad to talk about. I get a bit emotional on this lol. All those hardworks and any other memories will be wiped out along the server.

But, what the hell - if it's for the better, why not? This is just like making a decision for a dying runner who needs to have his legs amputated just to stay alive. Yes, the decision's hard, but you would rather have him alive, right?

Well, I'm not saying that the old server is hopeless anymore. But we need to have a "change" on this, you know what I mean.

Nevertheless, if the decision is for 'wipe', the old database will be backed up. So the problem of "what if the new server sucks - it might lose more players" is not an issue anymore. Period.

Moving on, after the wipeout, we should also have a lot of 'support' on this in order to maintain the freshness of the server.

We need a certain number of things to pick up numbers, keep them around for longest time possible and give them the excitement and fun the reason why they played Pie. If necessary, the rate has to be revamped to satisfy everyone. Advertisement is also a must to pick up numbers.


Exactly. Support like ads, events (GM's/recurring), lots of new decent eqs (for levelling/fashion), prolly NPCs, etc will aid the server to retain the excitement of the players (new or old).

How about the problem in rates? As you can see, some players want the present rates to be kept, and some, the otherwise. Simply put, we could have a solution on this. Training manuals. Some few for starting characters and would be available by winning events or quests. These manuals could be used by others who want to revamp the rates. And for those who still wants the 6x, they can just keep them (idk what for). These should be untradeable tho, so it won't be abused. Moreover, recurring (system) events could include timely floating rates (or not, totally up to you) to assist all of the players for levelling.

One more issue is the 'banned IPs'. For me, with all honesty, why not be forgiving? It's like, we're starting a whole new server whilst still restricting the old violators (or not) to play. Isn't that a bit harsh? Maybe they've changed already (for better or worse). Nevertheless, we could re'do the banning if they still misbehave, right? Letting them play and present a whole new personality would help the server, in many ways.

Cheers for wipe! Do not forget the backup, tho.

/kis

#24 OFFLINE   xxsicnessxx

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:30 AM

Admittedly some of the former staff was a bit harsh on the ban-hammer. I prefer my methods better /no1

-Ant

#25 OFFLINE   Usotsuki

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:06 AM

A poll on a separate topic or here would be nice to keep track of things.

#26 OFFLINE   Matias

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 05:24 PM

A poll is not needed. This is a feedback topic, not a voting one. What we take into consideration is what each person thinks about the wipe and their reasons.
A vote can easily be misleading with a lot of people voting that are not Pie related or creating double accounts or what not :P

#27 OFFLINE   Slazh

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:25 AM

just played yesterday, they scaried about the wipe out how about no donation for wipe out. sound good to me.

#28 OFFLINE   natooo

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:52 PM

im thinking about this topic and I would like that if he be wipe, back donations to wings and equipment please :)

#29 OFFLINE   GrowOldWithYou

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:40 PM

Banned IP must be allowed to access the server once again. I know Ant has a BETTER way of controlling bots in game. And I was informed by someone that most of the banned IP (specially from the Philippines) are from a computer shop. Meaning a single IP can affect multiple accounts. Active admins/Gms/staffs can do something about this for sure.

About the Wipe, (my idea is) wipe everything including ALL DONATIONS. We are going to start a new one. So MAKE another donation for the next PIE.

#30 OFFLINE   Carlly

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:35 AM

In the event we were to have an update to pie , my name is marlly Mavis and I'm pretty homosex




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